Curse

Stealth Bomberman · Feb 17, 2009, 05:28 PM // 17:28

I know in PvE mesmers have a wide range of builds at their disposal for HM and vanquishing ect...

but in PvP, they're to me, somewhat lacking in the creativity dpt.

I'm the kind of player that'll come up with a completely diff kind of build, even use skills ppl dont look twice at and work on it till it works in some way shape or form.

Seems like though, in pvp, ppl only want [visions of regret][empathy][backfire][wastrels worry] and PvE ppl only want fast cast nukers (low end pve i pressume).

do you guys believe in this concept?

GWEXTREEMFAN · Feb 17, 2009, 05:57 PM // 17:57

to be honest it's been ages since i've seen the last fast cast nuker
and i've seen more of them in AB than in PvE

Damian979 · Feb 17, 2009, 06:17 PM // 18:17

Fast casting nukers are less wanted because having yet another player on a team that just does damage is redundant. Damage can be healed but some one completely slammed with hexes is going to be shut down and out of the fight until they wear off or a monk removes them (unless they are actually dumb enough to fight through VoR, empathy, etc., etc. in which case they are dead anyway). And an opposing monk full of hexes and getting pegged with interupts = win.

ac1inferno · Feb 17, 2009, 09:18 PM // 21:18

Yeah, it's pretty sad that Mesmers have no usefulness in PvE; Domination is the only moderatly effective line; and most skills that were once good are now a weak joke, at best.

Massive Impulsa · Feb 17, 2009, 10:00 PM // 22:00

Ur saying WHAT!? Mesmers have pretty much been the god damn meta in ever god damn build, either its - PBlock,PD,VoR,FC Water,FC Curse, Signet Mes - the list is Looong atleast for GvG:> But in PvE its a little weaker^^

Steps_Descending · Feb 17, 2009, 10:05 PM // 22:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by ac1inferno

Yeah, it's pretty sad that Mesmers have no usefulness in PvE; [...] and most skills that were once good are now a weak joke, at best.

Eh? sorry? Not to sound jerkish but when was the last time you saw a mesmer deal damage? Last time I heard,CoP was the best direct damage in the game, inspiration held some of the best energy managment for caster in the game (behind SReaping and GoLE), they were of the few classes that had AL-ignoring damage that didn't require Line of sight or constant casting/attack (talking about attackers here) and whose long cooldown synergis oh-so-very well with AP.

By the way, did you notice empathy is probably the most powerfull damage spell in PvE. For 10 energy, monsters keep attacking, they can be blinded and it racks around 44-50 dmg per second, Al ignoring and without the need for said mesmer to do anything. And, amusing fact, it's the very first skill most mesmers will get their hand on.

TO OP, I don't know but when you start looking into disruption, mesmers have some very efficient ones. Here's my advice, don't judge a class on the average player. This is usually followed by "get a good guild" but I think I'll drop that part. Honestly I'm surprised people ask for the punishment skills in (even loosely) organised PvP. If I were you I'd stick to disrupting

Expherious · Feb 17, 2009, 10:29 PM // 22:29

CoP made Mesmers dominate PvE, And IMO Theyre the funnest to play in PvP and most effective.

Hanging Man · Feb 17, 2009, 10:39 PM // 22:39

I love having a Mesmer.
yes the new CoP is definitely giving mesmers some recognition PvE wise.

Pvp wise, just for the sake that everyone is running the classic VoR build, I never run it.
I love running something crazy or unexpected

Like in Ab i ran something like [skill]toxic Chill[/skill] and a few random hexes
Actually proved useful, won a ton of games.

But my advice is don't run something if you don't want to. Switch it up man, just because your running VoR doesn't guarantee victory. Plus it is more fun to not run a cookie cutter build

ac1inferno · Feb 18, 2009, 12:05 AM // 00:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Massive Impulsa

Ur saying WHAT!? Mesmers have pretty much been the god damn meta in ever god damn build, either its - PBlock,PD,VoR,FC Water,FC Curse, Signet Mes - the list is Looong atleast for GvG:> But in PvE its a little weaker^^

Most of the skills you named are from the Domination line. And if not, it's just abusing FC with a secondary.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steps_Descending

Eh? sorry? Not to sound jerkish but when was the last time you saw a mesmer deal damage? Last time I heard,CoP was the best direct damage in the game, inspiration held some of the best energy managment for caster in the game (behind SReaping and GoLE), they were of the few classes that had AL-ignoring damage that didn't require Line of sight or constant casting/attack (talking about attackers here) and whose long cooldown synergis oh-so-very well with AP.

Mesmers don't deal consistent or direct damage. Most the the damage they do is a result of their foe doing something such as [[Visions of Regret], [[Backfire], and [[Empathy]. Mesmers shut down, not deal damage, other than degen from the Illusion line. Inspiration has [[Channeling]. Many of the e-management skills have been nerfed and are no longer viable for other professions other than on a Mesmer with FC.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steps_Descending

By the way, did you notice empathy is probably the most powerfull damage spell in PvE. For 10 energy, monsters keep attacking, they can be blinded and it racks around 44-50 dmg per second, Al ignoring and without the need for said mesmer to do anything. And, amusing fact, it's the very first skill most mesmers will get their hand on.

I would say there's a lot more useful skills for PvE than [[Empathy]. There's no point in waiting for a foe to attack itself to death when you can just kill it. [[Spiteful Spirit] is different because that's AoE.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steps_Descending

TO OP, I don't know but when you start looking into disruption, mesmers have some very efficient ones. Here's my advice, don't judge a class on the average player. This is usually followed by "get a good guild" but I think I'll drop that part. Honestly I'm surprised people ask for the punishment skills in (even loosely) organised PvP. If I were you I'd stick to disrupting

That's the thing. Mesmers are only looked at for disruption, and which most if not all comes from the Domination line. If it's not that, it's abusing FC with skills from a secondary. That's whats sad about Mesmers. They're too focused and not enough versatility to do anything else so there's not much options.

SaDuFam · Feb 18, 2009, 02:52 AM // 02:52

It it sad to typecast the Mesmer role. Mesmer is the most versatile and can be anything it like to be to do the job in PvE. All other classes always take full advantage of the skills available from the secondary class whereever possible and why can't Mesmer do the same to fully harness its primary Fast Cast attribute? it is like asking Warriors, Paragons, Rangers, Monks, Necros, Assasins and Dervishes not to use their bestored primary attributes. That is what Fast Cast supposed to provide anyway - an attribute that make Mesmer better than others in the Fast Cast area. By the way Fast Cast is not limited to playing only Elementalist as secondary.

A mesmer can pack fast cast, fast skill recharge, interrupts, energy gain skill, enchantment removal skill and large damage in one skill bar. I believe it is the best class to lead the H/H team in PvE after having fun vanquishing all areas with H/H. Trust me I have played all 10 classes and completing all campaigns - (sad but it has entertained me for the last 3 years and saved me from buying other games)

I also enjoy playing mesmer in AB. He can capture shrine quickly, defense himself against Melees, messing with casters, self heal and gain energy in one balance skill bar.
He is good with one-on-one and can capture shrines. VoR mesmer is good with a blance team, but a balance Mesmer can fit into all PUG groups and produce consistet winning results.

zelgadissan · Feb 18, 2009, 03:11 AM // 03:11

This thread is seriously underestimating the Illusion line. Everything auto-attacks in PvE. Wandering Eye and Clumsiness both do great amounts of damage and prevent respectable amounts of damage at the same time. Frustration and Arcane Conundrum let you do anything you want to casters. Crippling Anguish is lulzy in AB.

I'm not going to argue that Illusion is stronger than Domination, but don't just ignore it.

Steps_Descending · Feb 18, 2009, 03:27 AM // 03:27

I may not be the best therorist around but i'm feeling talkative so...

Quote:

Originally Posted by ac1inferno

Mesmers don't deal consistent or direct damage. Most the the damage they do is a result of their foe doing something such as [[Visions of Regret], [[Backfire], and [[Empathy]. Many of the e-management skills have been nerfed and are no longer viable for other professions other than on a Mesmer with FC.

About inspiration, so what if it is only viable for a mesmer primary.Isn't that another advantage to mesmers. Paragon e-managment is only useful for warrior and paragon too. And there is also the mantras.

And about not dealing damage. you said it yourself, mobs kill themselves trough those. That is a form of damage. Or does damage means killing them directly. And by the way don't forget most AoE attacks (wirlingattack&others) trigger empathy multiple times. 250 dmg (5 hits) out of nowhere takes a nice chunck out of most HP bar I've seen.

Quote:

I would say there's a lot more useful skills for PvE than [[Empathy]. There's no point in waiting for a foe to attack itself to death when you can just kill it. [[Spiteful Spirit] is different because that's AoE.

I know,I am still one of those that think SS should be a mesmer elite. That's the DoT principle.
Cast on a target that will live long enough to be hurt enough (say that boss with 1 000 000 000HP) or on a secondary target so that when you target it, will already be around 50%.
THe only thing is that in GW they have cooldowns, so you can't spam them, but it still helps to take down a second target. And anyway on my mes most of my damage comes from empathy, VoR&co, so my biggest damage comes from VoR and back fire (those 2 can hurt a lot on casters).

Quote:

That's the thing. Mesmers are only looked at for disruption, and which most if not all comes from the Domination line. If it's not that, it's abusing FC with skills from a secondary. That's whats sad about Mesmers. They're too focused and not enough versatility to do anything else so there's not much options.

I'd ask what is the problem with abusing FCasting?
Isn't that just another advantage of mesmers? Rangers are as good with scythe as they can be with bow (ok maybe a slight exageration) an the same is true with dagger and.. wait didn't they have another... nvm it was probably hammer. Necromancers have highjacked the rit resto bar (for heroes). Order can be played as well by necro and derv.
Tough I'll agree illusion would need a real purpose, it has a "major" theme of attacker hate... but... it's light. Then again illusion and inspiration shares the mesmers utility spells. Basically mesmers are the most focused of the core class, we are a specialist class from before the classes called "specialists" existed. IT'S just too bad our job doesn't fit well into PvE so far. If it had lasted longer maybe we would have been needed as disruptor in end-game area.

Stealth Bomberman · Feb 18, 2009, 03:53 AM // 03:53

idk, maybe its just me or that mesmer in pve dont get much light is bc majority of their skills are designed for single target shutdown (as with assassin).

but as stated above illusion is definetly one of my fav att lines in gw by far. [ineptitude] my fav skill of all.

mesmers were designed for pvp, same with sins. given their current skills [signet of illusion] theyr're able to play pve with the rest of us.

my theory.

Steps_Descending · Feb 18, 2009, 12:57 PM // 12:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stealth Bomberman

idk, maybe its just me or that mesmer in pve dont get much light is bc majority of their skills are designed for single target shutdown (as with assassin).

another important piece of the puzzle, they only recently started changing it with clumsiness,CoP and VoR.

/cry
I want my mirror of Delusion!

t00115577 · Feb 18, 2009, 01:11 PM // 13:11

Mesmers > PvE. nothing better than watching enemies /facepalm themselves with backfire/empathy while you echo CoP them.

And obviously mesmers are really good in PvP

Quote:

Originally Posted by Massive Impulsa

PBlock,PD,VoR,FC Water,FC Curse, Signet Mes

Are just some of the awesome mesmer builds out there.

Neverending Silence · Feb 18, 2009, 01:31 PM // 13:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by SaDuFam

It it sad to typecast the Mesmer role. Mesmer is the most versatile and can be anything it like to be to do the job in PvE. All other classes always take full advantage of the skills available from the secondary class whereever possible and why can't Mesmer do the same to fully harness its primary Fast Cast attribute?

Thats funny cuz here lately looks like assassins can do everything but be monks...they even "fast cast" persay better then mesmers (assacasta, doesnt need a secondary either)

Anet needs to buff up mesmers in PvE. In PvP they're great and a major harassment to other players but other than farming PvE I see no use in wasting a party position on a mesmer when they're are obviously better options...(unless the area specifically favors the mesmers abilities) Play to win right?

Painbringer · Feb 18, 2009, 06:26 PM // 18:26

Just last night I ran [virulence] [fragility] build at the Fort Aspenwood with a couple [Wandering eye] used here and there and the kill count went up and up and up. It was ok build not super but I was killing things

riktw · Feb 21, 2009, 06:54 PM // 18:54

virulance and fragility is funny indeed, but fast casting nuker in PvE o_O
never played as that in PvE, mostly CoP and ineptitude builds.

Moonstruck Muse · Feb 23, 2009, 08:40 AM // 08:40

To be honest, I see messies as the Jack of all trades, at least caster wise. I've never had the speed ups hinder me, and tbh, I never need the ele's high en to do damage. For rits the FC speeds up thier nasty long casting times, and for monks I do miss divine favor, but I can make a decent backup one too.

I will also vouch for Illusion. Wandering Eye + Clumsiness can actually make a CoP substitute on, say, heros. EG DoA (NM Sadly) Just me (on mes) N a single tank, all mes heros just with Wandering Eye + Clumsiness were killing mobs pretty well. It was just a total goof run but the fact that we wiped mobs when all we were intending to do was practice tanking & CoP was nice.

But really the constant dmg dealt is marvelous. I think mesmers get overlooked because their elites don't stand out too much. In fact people laugh at me when I bring Lyssa's Aura, but once I have that up with WE & C & CoP, I'm cooking and doing dmg faster than some ele nukers at least, not to mention bringing one recharge skill and I'm going constantly.

They really just take getting used to though. I've only been in gw for a year, and on a mesmer almost constantly. That being said, I didn't start getting the hang of it for a good while, and I needed someone to hold my hand in a huge big of Proph. But once I got inting down, I was soloing and farming and what have you.

Stealth Bomberman · Feb 23, 2009, 04:18 PM // 16:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moonstruck Muse

To be honest, I see messies as the Jack of all trades, at least caster wise. I've never had the speed ups hinder me, and tbh, I never need the ele's high en to do damage. For rits the FC speeds up thier nasty long casting times, and for monks I do miss divine favor, but I can make a decent backup one too.

I will also vouch for Illusion. Wandering Eye + Clumsiness can actually make a CoP substitute on, say, heros. EG DoA (NM Sadly) Just me (on mes) N a single tank, all mes heros just with Wandering Eye + Clumsiness were killing mobs pretty well. It was just a total goof run but the fact that we wiped mobs when all we were intending to do was practice tanking & CoP was nice.

But really the constant dmg dealt is marvelous. I think mesmers get overlooked because their elites don't stand out too much. In fact people laugh at me when I bring Lyssa's Aura, but once I have that up with WE & C & CoP, I'm cooking and doing dmg faster than some ele nukers at least, not to mention bringing one recharge skill and I'm going constantly.

They really just take getting used to though. I've only been in gw for a year, and on a mesmer almost constantly. That being said, I didn't start getting the hang of it for a good while, and I needed someone to hold my hand in a huge big of Proph. But once I got inting down, I was soloing and farming and what have you.

ppl overlook mes because they cant play em. if you suck with a certain class ur not gonna have fun with it. and i also think mes elites are crap, majority of em at least.